TRAINER'S EYE #144 - "Butterfree Soars Beneath Blaze Charizard" ft. The Cave of Dragonflies

Dragonfree, the webmaster behind the iconic The Cave of Dragonflies, joins us for a fascinating Pokémon interview about her unexpected journey from Pokémon Yellow to pioneering one of the longest-running Pokémon fan sites online. In this episode, she discusses how she shaped the Pokémon community and reflects on how the online fandom has evolved over the years. Whether you're passionate about the games or the broader Pokémon fandom culture, this conversation is a must-listen!

Sources
Opening Song: "Forget You" by Alex_MakeMusic from Pixabay

Chapters

• 0:00 TRAINER'S EYE #144 - DragonFree
• 17:45 Commercial Break

Transcript

 TRAINER'S EYE #144 - DragonFree from Cave of Dragonflies

Cave of the Dragonflies: [00:00:00] I am Dragon Free Webmaster of the Cave of Dragonflies, and this is my Pokemon story. 

David Hernandez: Welcome to as the Pokemon Ball Turns, where we interview people about their experience with Pokemon. My name is David Hernandez I'm joined by web hosts of the cave of the dragonflies dragon Free. For those who don't know, the cave of dragonflies is where the smallest bugs live as alongside the [00:01:00] strongest of dragons. In another timeline, they are Satoshi to Jerry, but it's not this one. Dragon Free. Welcome to as the Pickleball Turns. Thank you for coming 

Cave of the Dragonflies: Thank you for having me.

David Hernandez: And for those who don't know, you've been in the Pokemon community for a long time. How about you get some insight because I actually said Satoshi Jiri. Do you kind of, can you share like why, I guess there's meaning to that. Do people really believe that you were Satoshi Jiri at one point?

Cave of the Dragonflies: this is kind of a, a, an in joke that came about, because I wrote, something on my website about, I, I think it was one of the, there's a section called Conspiracy Theories under Humor. and I wrote something about, you know, I, I am secretly sat Jeri because of these things. you know, that, they remade fire, remade red and, and green into fire, red and leaf green, just, and I had been talking about how I wanted that and so on.

Uh, and then someone actually emailed me and asked, are you really. Or post it in my guest book or something. Uh, and I just thought that was very funny. So I put it in [00:02:00] my frequently asked questions and it lived on from there. 

David Hernandez: Wow. So you really aren't Satoshi to Jerry. Let's go ahead and set the straight,

Cave of the Dragonflies: Well, you've never seen the two of us in the same room at the same time, right.

David Hernandez: Oh, snap. fair enough. That's fair enough. But keep diving into this 'cause you, I do a lot. You know, you've had so much extensive history in Pokemon. Of course, you've run the cave of the dragonflies. we just get into all the experience you have with Pokemon, where does this all start?

How about we start from the beginning?

Cave of the Dragonflies: Well, when I was about 10 years old, the Pokemon franchise was sort of starting to come to Iceland. this was in about the year 2000. at this time, the kids in my class and around me were sort of getting into it a bit. Uh, and as it happened, one of the kids in my class, uh, was interviewed for a newspaper, for like an article about Pokemon.

as this, you know, what the kids are into these days. And because he was a kid in my class, they [00:03:00] hung the article up in my classroom. Uh, so I read that article that was sort of my first proper taste of what Pokemon was. Uh, and I immediately decided it sounded stupid and I was not going to, uh, try to play it.

And then, uh, shortly afterwards, uh, I went and visited my cousins who I visited a lot. Uh, and turned out that they were very into Pokemon, uh, and they just pretty much put Pokemon yellow in my hands and were like, no, you have to play this. Uh, and then I reluctantly did as they asked and fell in love in, in like 10 minutes.

David Hernandez: were you initially hesitant to play Pokemon Yellow, and if so, why? Was it just 'cause it was new or was there a different

Cave of the Dragonflies: Mostly I was just kind of a contrarian child. Like, uh, if something was popular, I would be like, no, then that's stupid. I'm not gonna get into that. unfortunately, my actual tastes, uh, weren't that contrarian. So, uh, you know, I, I would. Have all sorts of things that I would think, uh oh, that, that sounds stupid.

I'm not gonna get into it. And then I did Anyway, so Pokemon was kind [00:04:00] of one of those things.

David Hernandez: now, you know, you first game was Pokemon yellow. What do you remember about those first experiences of playing Pokemon yellow, of turning it on, having peaky cheese as a starter and going through that game.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Mostly I, I, uh, just found that I really like the sprites. I have actually, uh, sometimes mused on how, uh, if they had happened to have me red or blue instead, uh, I would not have been nearly as charmed by it, just because I, I find the sprites from red and blue kind of offputting. But the yellow sprites, just looked very pretty to me.

So I liked the monsters and I really liked the battle system. I have not really been exposed to, uh, this sort of like, uh, term-based RPG. So, uh. Uh, so it was kind of new to me, but uh, I just really enjoyed this sort of strategic, uh, the, the monsters No moves. You pick the moves. All the monsters that you face are monsters that you can also capture and use yourself.

And these were sorts of, the concepts that appealed to me about it. Essentially, Pokemon yellow rewrote my brain. So this is like my ideal video game [00:05:00] gameplay.

David Hernandez: What do you think was it about just Pokemon in general that catered to your interest and probably even still to still does to this day?

Cave of the Dragonflies: I've always really liked, uh, animals and sort of creatures. Fantastic old beings. And, uh, like, as a kid I would be, really into just making up creatures and drawing pictures of them and, uh, not like stories about unicorns or, like, any kind of fantasy creature. I would, just.

Be really into and play games about the, uh, makeup stories about them. Uh, so already just the concept of you've got all these monsters, was appealing. And then yeah, I, I, I did have a little bit of experience with, strategy games, like, heroes of Might and Magic was a game series that I had also played that was also my cousins that introduced me to it.

so that strategy aspect was also something that drove me to it.

David Hernandez: obviously there's a whole bunch of Pokemon that have both started and even come out since. What is your favorite Pokemon throughout the entire franchise?

Cave of the Dragonflies: My favorite Pokemon is Char Art. Uh, [00:06:00] it, it was not my first favorite. My first favorite was just Pikachu, I think, because it was my starter. But, once again with the yellow Sprites, I just really liked the yellow Sprite of Char Art. Uh, so once I got one, with the chairman under that, uh, that I got in yellow, I sort of, fell in love with the way that, uh, it looks kind of calm and peaceful.

Like I like that in dragons. I've always liked dragons. and also, uh, I sort of found myself, Just rooting for chairs are enough anyway, uh, I, I have this memory of, like my blast. I was having an easier time gaining levels and I actually got kind of mad at blasters for it because like, no, like I want chairs are to get the levels.

David Hernandez: Charging's supposed to be the one who's supposed to be having this, not

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah.

David Hernandez: after this initial Pokemon Yellow, the reason why we're still on it is you actually started your website not too far after that. Correct? I.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yes, my website, uh, was started in November, 2002. Uh, when I was 12 years old, and this was basically, uh, because my dad, uh, is a computer [00:07:00] programmer and he, uh, taught me a little bit of how to make websites in like 2001 or so. and essentially. I made sort of a little test website about cats. Uh, but in the meantime I was thinking, oh, what if I make a website about Pokemon?

and, and sort of, sort of imagining that. And then once I visited actual Pokemon websites that were out there, uh, I sort of got way more enthusiastic about that. I'm like, yeah, I want to make my own Pokemon website. 

David Hernandez: Was it just the fact that you were seeing so many other Pokemon websites pop up to made you think like, oh, I need to be included in this. I love Pokemon just as much as they do. Or, what was the reason behind wanting to start a website for yourself, especially at such a young age? 'cause you're at 12 years old at this point, right?

Cave of the Dragonflies: Uh, I think, well, like I was saying, my dad, uh, had taught me a bit of how websites work. that was obviously a neat starting point. Then, uh, I visited this website called Muse Hangout. Uh, and I just really loved that website. I was incredibly enthusiastic about, all the stuff that this girl was [00:08:00] doing.

this website had like, tutorials on how to fuse Pokemon based on official art. And I, I made so many of those, just all sorts of fun, informative pages and humorous pages, and I just wanted to do something like that. it felt like, uh, uh, you know, a lot of creativity that could be expressed through it.

and meanwhile when I visited, uh, various other Pokemon websites, I would be like, oh, I could do better than that, which was also inspiring. 

David Hernandez: mad props to you to wanting to do that. Back in my, my day. In those years, I was just focused on trying to figure out how to make the MySpace pages work. Okay. I can never figure out the HTML code. So the fact that you were able to do it at such a young age, don't know how, but hey, that's what gives us each different talents. One thing, last thing I wanna do, just regards to the website for now. We'll come touch on it later. Uh, obviously it's known as the. Cave of dragonflies, what's the meaning or the story behind that? What made you want to kind of name it that?

Cave of the Dragonflies: Essentially, um, at first when, uh, when I started it in 2002, it was actually called Better Face Pokemon [00:09:00] website. That's because I called myself better free. Uh uh, and that was also a fun moment. This was, when I was on Muse Hangout. On Muse. Hangout had this guest book, uh, where you could post messages, and talk to other visitors.

and the first time I signed the guest book, I just used my real name. but then I saw like everyone else had some kinda pseudonym and I was like, ah, I should probably do that too. so I, I figured I should probably use the name of a Pokemon. my two favorite Pokemon were chars are butterfree, but, uh, I figured if I use chars art, then everyone is going to think I'm a guy, so I'm going to use Butterfree.

and ever since then, I've called myself, uh, better free or this derivative dragon free on the internet.

David Hernandez: Mm-hmm.

Cave of the Dragonflies: as a result, when I started my Pokemon website, it was called Better Freeze Pokemon Site. but at, at some point, uh, I think it was in 2003, uh, I had started to feel like that was kind of a generic name and when it's something a bit more unique, uh, and because, chairs in Butter Free were my favorite Pokemon, and they were sort [00:10:00] of the mascots.

I figured, well, one of them is a dragon, the other is a bug, uh, dragonflies or something that combines bugs and dragons and, uh, I just like dragonflies. So, uh, so I figured that would be a fun name, and that's how that came 

David Hernandez: I was wondering, 'cause you know, we're about to dive into gen two. Obviously there's a little dragonfly Pokemon over there. Do you have much fondness for it at all? Or it just something that doesn't replace the originals?

Cave of the Dragonflies: Uh, wait, is there a Dragon flight Pokemon in gen two? I'm blanking.

David Hernandez: Y uh yah.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Oh, yeah. Um, I didn't actually think of it as, as one for some reason, but, uh. I was never particularly into Yanmar or anything. It was a Pokemon that existed, I was much more into fly gun, which is like a bit more of a literal, uh, dragon fly to me.

Uh, and this sort of is based than a buck, but that becomes a literal dragon. that, What I think of when I think of kind of a dragonfly Pokemon.

David Hernandez: Well, let's dive into gen two and What do you remember about playing Pokemon Gold, silver, and Crystal and even Pokemon, [00:11:00] Ruby and Sapphire?

Cave of the Dragonflies: gold is one that I got, uh, I believe sometime in September, 2001 or something like that. I remember not, finding, the new Pokemon quite as appealing as the ones that were in, in yellow, which, uh, I, I think it's a feeling that a lot of fans get just because the Pokemon aren't as familiar and then it fades away.

but I did really enjoy, uh, a lot of the features, that it added. and I did find some other, Pokemon in there that I really liked. my starter was a toto dial. Which was the only one of the starters that I liked at the time. I did, eventually, you know, try the other ones, sort of restarting the game for Fend for a day, and came to really like qui lava actually, uh, specifically outta that evolution line.

But, uh, but Al was my starter. 

David Hernandez: and when it comes to gen three, what do you remember about playing those Pokemon, Ruby and Sapphire?

Cave of the Dragonflies: Oh yeah, I definitely remember those. Uh, I got Sapphire actually in I think June or July, of 2003, which was, a fair bit after they [00:12:00] came out in the US because they weren't out in Europe until way later.

but I actually found, like a copy that had clearly been imported from the US slightly before it was actually supposed to be released in Europe, which is I was very excited about, TCO as my server there.

Uh, I did always like grow out more than Satel.

David Hernandez: Yes. I always felt like, uh, septal got cheated. It's like the old man Gro should have been the final evolution, or at least something closer to it, I think.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah, grew a lot and Flagon were my favorites out of Gen three.

David Hernandez: Flagging was so cool although it was a pain in the butt to train for me from what I remember. 'cause I think trap pinch had all like special moves with bite, faint attack and sand attack and crunch and all that. But it special attacks very bad. So it just always was very frustrating. I was always had to do like the switch just to get it to be able to get some experience.

'cause you couldn't really defeat the Pokemon that I would come across with. Trainers always have ended up fainting.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah. Uh, trap injection has a very good attack, so if you can actually get a ground move on it, uh, that was really good. But then would learn like bite and [00:13:00] crunch and so on, which were special back in the day. Uh, kind of a funny thought now, but, uh, but yeah, that's, uh.

David Hernandez: right? Well, at least you, you're, you're smart. Uh, you were more smarter than I was 'cause I wasn't thinking that hard. I was trying to work with bite and crunch.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah, I had at some point, uh, during gen two, I had found game facts and just absolutely devoured some of the guides, uh, talking about the game mechanics, which is also something that, uh, I can vary into, uh, ever since with Pokemon kind of, uh. Studying the exact formulas and mechanics of how things work.

David Hernandez: It sounds like even up to gen three, 'cause you were still at Pokemon, you found a lot of people online to kind of engage with Pokemon. So I guess you were still running your website, you were still like going to all the different areas to try to meet with PO and talk of Pokemon. Was that the case?

Cave of the Dragonflies: well, apart from my cousins who got me into it, uh, I never really knew anyone in real life who was into Pokemon at all. Uh, my friends just never played the games or anything. but online, like in the guest book and we hangout. I made my first internet friends, I am still in contact [00:14:00] with one of them to this day, who is actually coming to visit me, uh, this May.

And, uh. and that has sort of continued to be a running theme. Like I, I befriend a lot of people through, Pokemon, either through the website, uh, or through my fanfic that I've posted on other forums. Uh. A lot of these are people that I'm still in contact with today, uh, under some of my best friends.

Uh, and I've gone to visit, a lot of friends, especially in the uk, but some, in the Americas as well. like, cupcake decks, who, um, who I met on the SE net forums in I think 2004, five. who I, whose wedding I went to a couple years ago?

It was just, incredibly, you know, sort of thinking back on how many friends I've made through Pokemon in one way or another.

Uh, all the good times that I've had with them. are a lot to think back on of like, I have no idea what kind of person I would be today without that.

David Hernandez: I was gonna say, because you know, can you imagine your life had you not engaged with Pokemon Especi, she as a [00:15:00] contrarian, and had you not started this website, it'd be kind of interesting to see that timeline to where you don't even know all these people. And it sounds like Pokemon's really giving you a. form of connection that goes beyond just even the franchise and online itself that you wouldn't even travel, you know, spend your own money to go see these people. It's kind of amazing to see and even think

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah, absolutely. The um, uh, it, it's kind of hard to even conceive of what that timeline would be like because so many things would be different. Um, one of the things that I, uh. Uh, that I know would be different is that, uh, I, I was extremely shy, uh, sort of back in the day and when I was like a teenager.

one of the things about that was that, uh. Uh, I, I had a best friend in school, but I ended up, uh, at the age of like 15, 16 when we, uh, moved to a, to the next school stage. Uh, I ended up picking a different school from my best friend. Uh, and I think the reason that I had sort of the, the [00:16:00] confidence to decide, no, I wanna.

Go to that school was like that, that school had had kind of the nerdy types and, uh, uh, I, I kind of identified more with that, being myself with the Pokemon website and everything. after making all these friends online and so, and I, I sort of felt less like I had to follow my one real life friend.

Uh, so I would probably have gone to a different school and. This school that I did go to is where I met my husband, so I would probably not have met him either.

David Hernandez: Oh wow, that's crazy. Now, this is obviously outside of Pokemon, right? Or is, did y'all meet because of Pokemon?

Cave of the Dragonflies: Uh, we did not meet because of Pokemon, although one of the first conversations that I had with my husband, uh, was when I was drawing Pokemon on my papers, and, uh, he kind of noticed and, uh, struck up a conversation about it.

David Hernandez: So because you, he saw you drawing that allowed him y'all to kind of even connect and meet, and I mean, all this time later, y'all are still together, so.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah, I mean he, um, uh, it, it wasn't like the first [00:17:00] conversation. I'm not, definitely not the only one, but, uh, that it was one of the times that we talked, uh, when I was still being criminally shy and barely ever talked to anyone.

David Hernandez: I think that's normal for all of us. 'cause I'm shy as well. I'm not much of an extrovert at all, although some days I have to force myself to be that way. I'm more of, I wanna stay to myself. Let me, uh, be with my dogs at home. With a co, a cup of hot chocolate and a taco, that's usually my type of night.

Cave of the Dragonflies: I think it's impressive that, that you're hosting a podcast, uh, uh, when you are kind of an introvert because, uh, that seems like a very, uh, uh, sort of extrovert, uh, job sort of looking at it from the outside.

David Hernandez: Well see. Here's the trick. You have the guest talk most of the time, so people don't think you actually are an extrovert. So I've learned to mask it pretty well. 

Commercial Break

[00:18:00]

David Hernandez: I know that you've also mentioned that you like to write fanfiction What made you kind of wanna start doing Pokemon fan fiction and what kind of fan fiction do you write?

Cave of the Dragonflies: I actually started writing fan fiction before I started the website. I was 11 years old when I wrote my first one, which was, uh, quite bad. Uh. Essentially, uh, at that point, I, I had no idea that fan fiction was a thing. Uh, I, I just, uh, liked to make up stories in my, idle moments kind of as a child, ever since I was, you know, six or [00:19:00] seven or even younger.

and at some point when I was 11, I was like, what if I made a story that made it about Pokemon and was like, I'm the biggest Galaxy brain ever to, to thought of this

David Hernandez: Such a good idea. I

Cave of the Dragonflies: Uhhuh. This first one was just, uh, it was basically an essay about these, uh, dumb, fake, legendary hybrids that I had made, uh, following the tutorial from News Hangout. Uh, so it was called Molds Apart and Dry. Guess what? Quick One. They were made of,

David Hernandez: Okay. gonna say it's probably part of the Legendary Bird's, part of the Legendary Beast.

Cave of the Dragonflies: yeah, they were, uh, it, it was two of them. One, one that was the birds and one that was the beasts. Uh, and I, I, I,

David Hernandez: I

Cave of the Dragonflies: yeah.

David Hernandez: I heard Q and I was like, oh, Arto. Okay. Okay. I was thinking Sweet Kon Art Ryko and uh, res together. Okay.

Cave of the Dragonflies: But yeah, I, wrote sort of an essay, uh, just talking about these legendaries and, you know, like 11 year olds do, being like, oh, you know, Zahar is the strongest Pokemon ever and it has 999 and all of its stats and [00:20:00] uh, 

David Hernandez: It has no weaknesses and it can not knock out your Pokemon in

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yes, uh,

David Hernandez: like not

Cave of the Dragonflies: I, I actually wrote it has no weaknesses. And then like, uh, a couple of sentences later, I, I wrote, uh, oh, I didn't realize it was a triple weakness for rock run for your lives.

You know, it, instead of erasing the bit where I said it had no weakness, I just, uh, wrote in the realization, And, and sort of, after writing about the origin of Ryan Koon, I, went off on this tangent about how it was discovered, which ended up becoming a bit of a story about this kid Alan Ketchum, who is a's son.

You know, finding and how they, uh, uh, sort of analyze it scientifically and so on. so that was my very first fanfic. Uh, it was incredibly ridiculous. But, on June 19th, specifically 2002, when I am 12, is when I start another story that I initially, uh. Uh, just call my Pokemon story. That eventually would be [00:21:00] called the Quest for the Legends.

and it sort of builds on what I have been doing in Zafar and Dry. Like they, they were canon to it, uh, but it was about this kid going on a Pokemon journey. and he's going to be a legendary collector. Except then at some point I realized, ah, that sounds kind of stupid. I'm going to, quietly retro up that bit and instead I'm going to make up a different plot so that the title, the quest for the legend still makes sense.

And essentially, uh, this story, that I started there when I was 12, uh, it included my ridiculous, fake, legendary habits, ended up being something that I was writing for 16 years and completed. Uh, on June 19th, uh, 2018 Of 28.

David Hernandez: That's some dedication. My

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah.

David Hernandez: gosh. Yeah. So you spent 16 years from when you first wrote it back when you were 12 to all the way till 2000, I think you

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yes.

David Hernandez: Were you always like going back to it, or were you adding to it? Like,

Cave of the Dragonflies: Essentially,

David Hernandez: that's impressive, like,

Cave of the Dragonflies: yeah, the, um, uh, I rebooted it in [00:22:00] 2004 when I was 14. Uh, and at that point I was like, oh, you know, uh, I can't believe how bad this stuff that I wrote when I was 12 was, I'm, I'm so much more mature now that I'm 14.

So I kind of started it over at that point and, uh, uh, tweaked some things, but nonetheless kept a lot more than I really should have.

and uh, it's that version that I eventually, uh, went on to finish in 2018. and I was writing it, uh, you know, solidly for that entire time. Uh, if I had kind of, just left off. you know, in 2005, I would not have picked it up again in, in 2015 or anything, but, um, because I was writing it steadily for that entire time, it would be like, uh, you know, by the time I was like, oh, I can't believe I did this stupid thing in, in 2004.

I was like, uh, but, you know, the, the stuff that I've been writing for the past few chapters, that's really good and interesting. Uh, you know, I, I was still invested in that and still wanted to keep going. So that's effectively how I kept working on it all that time.

David Hernandez: I was gonna say, 'cause there had to be moments to where like you [00:23:00] had to be tempted to just end it, you know, 16 years to work on a story's, like I said, dedication. What made you want to keep writing it? Like were you just wanting to get to the finish or was this a part of it that you really wanted to see how it played out?

Cave of the Dragonflies: Essentially I, uh, I always had future plans of some kind for, uh, uh, that I was excited about. So, uh. At some point earlier on, there was mostly some subplots, but also this main plot that I was, uh, very psyched about getting to, about, uh, you know, who's going to be recruited to save the world by a legendary, and that's gonna be awesome.

and then, you know, after I'd gotten to that, uh, other things had sort of snowballed together. Uh, I was really invested in this size or character that, uh. That was on the Man Characters team. Uh, so I wrote several chapters that were sort of increasingly about s there. And by the time I was done with all that, there was other stuff that I had thought of that was sort of like in the, uh, in the near future.

Uh, so it'd be like, oh, you [00:24:00] know, I wanna get to these chapters.

David Hernandez: It's like you had some motivation. It's like, I need to get to this part before I can finally say goodbye, and then you just kind of see another mountain and just keeps going and going and

Cave of the Dragonflies: Well, I did have, uh, uh, once I had this, this sort of plot about saving the world, uh, I did have like an ending in mind. Uh, so I did always, uh, have a distant far future, place that I wanted to reach with it. and then that, uh, you know, my conceptions of the ending and, and the plot and what was actually going on evolved as I went on.

Uh, the, uh, the actual ending stuff was largely something that I thought up in 2007, with some additions in like 2012. so a lot of it's, uh. You know, had been piecing itself together for a long time and I was, uh, always excited to get to, uh, some of those ending bits as well.

David Hernandez: Was it kind of bittersweet at the same time to finish that story? Like were you kind of wanting to continue at some point?

Cave of the Dragonflies: well, I have written other stories as well. Uh, I wrote one, between like 2007 and 2010 called [00:25:00] Morphic, which is a very different sort of story. And, uh, I've written various one shots, so it's not like, uh, this was like my only Pokemon Fanfic or anything like that. it was still, an emotional moment, actually getting to the finish line and getting to, uh, uh, to post the end, uh, and to just kind of write the final chapter and, and all the.

Big catharsis moments. 

David Hernandez: I guess that's kind of what I mean. 'cause for me, you know, I've written a couple things in my spare time. And I do a podcast. Obviously I know it's not

Cave of the Dragonflies: mm-hmm.

David Hernandez: still a podcast. Whenever I've done something creative for a extended period of time.

Now I'm talking about 16 years. I think the longest I've ever done something maybe would be seven months back when I used to write it, felt was emotional experience when I completed something because you put your own kind of, I'll say soul, your own kind of sweat. You've seen it kind of grown up to what it is at the fruition. from my perspective, hearing 16 years that that's old enough to drive here in the States. So [00:26:00] what I meant. Like it had to be kind of heartbreaking in a way to where yes, you finally see it kind of come to what you always hoped that it would be. But then now the moment's kind finally over that you won't have that time again, if that makes sense.

Cave of the Dragonflies: I think I did have kind of a, uh. Uh, you know, a, a soft landing because kind of as soon as I, uh, as I actually finished the story, I started working on a commentary on the story because, uh, by that point, you know, I'd had readers who had been reading it for more than half their lives, like, maybe not a lot, who, who had been reading it all the way since 2002, but definitely some who had been reading it since 2004.

And, basically both for myself and for those readers. Uh, I wanted to kind of go back to the first chapters and just, uh, sort of write a bit about, what I remember about the thought process behind writing this, uh, and. gently commenting on the silly things that I did and, uh, you know, things that I imagined I would do that I never did because before they ever happened, I realized they were kind of [00:27:00] dumb.

and this commentary was something that I was working on for, uh, uh, you know, I, I think it went a year or more. Uh. Kind of commenting on one or two chapters a week and publishing that. And then after that I also did a project where I did some, uh, like art for each chapter of the story. So, uh, I didn't quite say goodbye to it entirely.

Uh, more just sort of, affectionately keeping up, the memory on the, uh, uh. You know, uh, like I said, it, it, I was 14, uh, when I started this version, and even then it was based on stuff that I wrote when I was 12. There's a lot of very silly stuff in it, uh, but I love it dearly as like a, you know, a confused creation that is very much a reflection of me and yes, I would.

Like to rewrite, uh, this story one day? you know, I have other things that I'm working on, before I get to that. So I don't know that it's going to be anytime soon, but, uh, but it's still something that, uh, is on my mind a bit.

David Hernandez: The site's been around for going on 20, 25 years at this point. from your perspective, [00:28:00] what has it been like to keep running the site as Pokemon has progressed?

Has it evolved over time? How has it changed to when you first started to what it is now?

Cave of the Dragonflies: well, at the time that I started the website, uh, the Pokemon fandom had a lot more websites, which is something that I kind of miss. Like the creativity of, of kids sort of just making their own web space, uh, creating their own layouts, uh, and just whatever content they could think of, was just really lovely.

even though a lot of those websites didn't last very long, minus is one of few that, uh, are, are still around that, uh. That sort of started in that era, but yes, I, I think that, we have lost something as a fandom with, the loss of that sort of creativity. people have moved to social media.

They make, uh, make social media posts and streams and so on. And, uh, I'm not talking those forms of, of, uh, fan creativity either. But, uh, uh, but websites were, uh, or these fan sites were a very special sort of, uh. Creative expression that, uh, I do [00:29:00] wish we had more of. And I do think that there is a bit of a resurgence in fan sites these days with, uh, uh, platforms like neo cities where you can, make your own website in, uh, in sort of the same way that people would make their own GeoCities back in the day.

It's obviously named in reference to that.

David Hernandez: I think it's just more of the case to where I guess people kind of shifted priorities, I think where back in, you know, our days, back in our days, you know, Pokemon was still relatively, uh, new-ish. It was the new kid on the block to where we were.

We didn't know what was gonna happen with Pokemon, you know, back after gen three. It was kind of a different world to be a Pokemon fan than it is today. And if, you know, if you met a fellow Pokemon, you really felt like brothers kind of hiding out because a lot of people really weren't into Pokemon. A lot of it was driven on the internet, and if you were running a site like yours or if you're running anything Pokemon, it was purely outta just the passion for doing it. Wow. Nowadays, just from my perspective, lot of that passion has been ripped out [00:30:00] because a lot of people do it for either fame or for, they feel like they have to do it this way. people try to get famous on Twitch just for the sake of just trying to get that no notoriety without really having much interest in what does it mean to be a Twitch streamer, you

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah, I, I.

David Hernandez: to me it just seems like the motive is different, if that makes

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah, I agree. I think the internet has, uh, become a lot more commercialized in a lot of ways, or like, uh, uh, more monetized like people, uh, making content, is often I. you know, it's on these platforms that can earn you money. Uh, and people will get into it sort of with the idea that like, maybe I will become a popular enough streamer or YouTuber or something to, uh, to make a living out of this.

Whereas like when I started my website, it was just a website that I run in my spare time. Uh, and uh, it never occurred to me really, uh. That it could be something that I would make money off and later I would sort of make a conscious decision. Like I don't want to have ads on my website. I get a lot of, emails kind of [00:31:00] wanting to advertise on my website and, uh, and grandly say no to them every time.

But, uh, yeah.

David Hernandez: Real quick, so what makes you not wanna run ads on your website, if you don't mind sharing.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Mostly, I just don't like ads. Uh, which means that, uh, in my mind it's sort of, uh, you know, ads are necessary evil sometimes, but, uh, uh, to me they're not necessary because, you know, I have a job, I can host my Pokemon website, uh, for not that much money a month. So, uh. Uh, you know, I, I think not having ads on the site is worth that money.

David Hernandez: And I think that's kind of bring it home, back to Pokemon. You see that a lot with TCG specifically. You know, back in the day you played cards, you collected them for the sake of the cards. There wasn't, there was monetary incentive, but not to the point to where that was the root reason why you collected cards. Nowadays it's different.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah.

David Hernandez: Uh, anybody who's followed anything with the TCG knows how difficult it is. You hear it mentioned as an investment, you [00:32:00] hear it mentioned as a monetary thing instead of the sake of the cards. People may say that's naive because you know, we live in a real world, but Pokemon's always been about escaping the real world.

It's always been an escape for many Pokemon fans, that's kind of what we mean when it comes to what you're talking about, to where. in the day, it was just patient. It was just passion. It's just doing a project for the sake of doing it. Now it's for the sake of trying to get the numbers to try to get noticed by the Pokemon company or whoever. And I don't know if that's just maybe how times have changed. Probably it is and maybe, hopefully it doesn't progress. 'cause I think that, like you said, you miss something when you don't have as much people doing things out of the sake of just passion with little reason of just getting monetized?

Not saying you shouldn't try to make money if you can, but just to wear that shouldn't be your motivation, in my opinion.

Cave of the Dragonflies: Yeah, absolutely. Like, uh, I don't think there's anything wrong with, uh, getting monetized, of course, or, uh, or kind of wanting that. But, uh, but I do wish people, uh. Sort of did not get quite so [00:33:00] caught up in the idea that, uh, that they must make money or, uh, or must make things, their job. Uh, 'cause it's all, all right to just have a hobby, uh, and to create things as a hobby.

and I think, that that's something that we have lost a bit or, uh, or at least have less of these days.

David Hernandez: Well, dragon Free. Thank you for coming on as the Pokeball turns. I wanna leave you with this last Pokemon question. If you could bring six Pokemon to a Pokemon battle, what? Six would you bring?

Cave of the Dragonflies: I would have to think about that because I, uh. You know, I, I don't quite have like one team that, uh, uh, like a specific team of six favorites. my favorite Pokemon that I usually name are charts at Butterfree and S some of the ones that I've liked later. Uh, kind of after that.

would be Flagon, DGA and jolty, but, uh, they don't form much of a coherent team probably. But, uh, you know, if, if, if you were to pick, pick six Pokemon, uh, sort of representing me, I [00:34:00] guess, uh, it would be those six jars are better for either Flagon, dga, and Jolt.

David Hernandez: There we go. That's what it's all about. It's not always about winning. It's just sometimes about who you are as a Pokemon trainer. But before you go, if people wanna check out your website, if they wanna connect with you, if they really wanna find out if you're Satoshi or not, where can people go? By all means, please plug away.

Cave of the Dragonflies: well the website is, called The Cave of Dragonflies, but it is@dragonflycave.com. I'm also on Blue Sky, uh, on Twitter. although, you know, Twitter is, is something that, people are, becoming increasingly reluctant to use. Uh, so am I. But, uh, uh, you can find me personally as alias, or the site itself at dragonfly cave.com and blue, blue sky.[00:35:00]